Episode 091: How to Start Your Cloud Journey with Chirag Nayyar

In this episode I catch up with Chirag Nayyar who is working towards helping businesses make that shift into the cloud. Chirag comes from a background in computer science and shares the experience of his journey into the cloud coming straight out of university.

In this episode, we talk about…

  • Chirag’s background and journey into the Cloud field
  • Starting on the Azure platform gave Chirag a good foundation in the Cloud space
  • Getting good at one platform allows one to make sense of other platforms
  • The Google, AWS, and other Cloud communities have played a major part in (guest name) career
  • People struggle with the intimidation that comes with having conversations and speaking
  • Practice is always required no matter how much confidence you may have
  • Thoughts on the Alibaba Cloud platform and it’s presence in Asia
  • Great certification tips from the plethora of certificates that Chirag has under his belt (24)
  • Understanding the implementation of certified knowledge is one of the biggest setbacks
  • Challenges presented when coming from a background in computer science
  • Leverage your existing experience rather than starting from scratch in a career switch

Resources from this episode:

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Full Transcript:

Mike Pfeiffer:
Hey, what’s up everybody. It’s Mike Pfeiffer and you’re listening to the CloudSkills.fm podcast.

Mike Pfeiffer:
All right, Chirag, It’s good to have you on the podcast, man. How you doing?

Chirag Nayyar:
Yes. Good, good. Thanks. Thanks Mike, for this opportunity and I am pretty excited to share my thoughts around the cloud, and I’m a big fan of all the episodes. I’ve watched most of the episode and looking for more and more such kind of episodes in near future. How’s it going on your side?

Mike Pfeiffer:
Going good, man. Yes, I appreciate that. It’s really an interesting time, right? All this stuff going on. I’ve seen you were working on a lot of stuff out there. So yes, I appreciate that. But man, it’s never a dull moment, right? It’s just so much stuff going on.

Chirag Nayyar:
I believe due to this pandemic situation, everything, especially the cloud movement, is getting accelerating. It is a crazy time going from last three to four months, continuous back to back work, all the people and all sides of industry and businesses is talking about how they can leverage the cloud with any cloud platform. But they had a really good experience, so far so good.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Lots of opportunity, man. That’s one of the reasons why I was looking forward to chatting with you. Obviously you’ve seen some of the stuff that you’ve been doing in the community and we’ll get into that. But I think your background is cool because you’re doing something that a lot of people are going to end up doing, which was pretty much coming from university in a computer science degree and pretty much going straight into industry, working in cloud. So like a career that was born in the cloud. Could you share a little bit about your background and how that unfolded for you?

Chirag Nayyar:
Sure. I would always love to share like how I started my journey. So I got to introduce about cloud platform back in around 2012 or 2013 timeline with when it was known as Windows Azure. Because of a one college program, it was known as BizSpark.

Chirag Nayyar:
So I got some credits and I got to introduce at that time. I was not aware what is actually the virtual machine and how the Everything Software Defined thing works. But when I’m in this stage of passing or completing my graduation, I was very well versed with, and I made my mindset that I would like to start my journey as in professional career in the cloud field. I tried to put more focus on strengthening my basics around networking, compute and storage, which helped me to enter into the job with a partner, which is my current employer. It’s a born in cloud partner. So it’s almost three and a half year journey, day in, day out. I’m only working, talking about a cloud, cloud migration, cloud security, how any enterprise or any business can adapt the cloud, how we can design and what kind of hindrances also come while preparing the roadmap.

Chirag Nayyar:
So it’s really, it’s awesome every day. Every customer is coming with a different set of problem to listen and to provide a solution. So I’m really enjoying my job from day zero to 'til date. In between I change multiple locations, I got the opportunity and I traveled a couple of countries. Righ now I’m based out of Singapore. So really, really happy with the job and the role I’m doing.

Chirag Nayyar:
So I changed the role in between, also I would like to share, because as you mentioned, I am coming from a computer science background, but I started as a business development guy. Then I moved into the Cloud P sales role now, which is a bit of techno-commercial. I’m handling, I understand the commercial part as well as the technical perspective to qualify a lead and how to take that forward.

Mike Pfeiffer:
That’s interesting. That’s insanely fast trajectory into getting into a job, working in cloud. What platform did you start with? You said you got into the BizSpark platform or program. That was an Azure-specific program, right? Like giving you some Azure credits and getting started. Is that where you started, with the Azure platform?

Chirag Nayyar:
Yes, exactly. It was at that time Windows Azure, I believe in 2012 and 2013. Microsoft renamed it and make it as a Microsoft Azure. So I started with that because I got a credit, I was not aware. But in that program, there was lot of training part. After that I started following that Microsoft Virtual Academy courses. There is lot of good content at that time. I believe on a weekly basis, there are lot of livestream sessions happen with a proper focus some day on storage, something on networks, something on security. So it gave me a boost to understand what actually they are. As I was going through the academics, I started correlating with my academics, “Okay. This is a hardware part. This is a software defined part.” and how the basics are working on premises as well as on cloud.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Yes. I remember the Microsoft Virtual Academy. I actually did a course on there once. This was, I don’t know, six, seven, maybe eight years ago. But now for anybody listening that’s wondering what happened to Microsoft Virtual Academy, that’s now Microsoft Learn.

Chirag Nayyar:
Learn, Yes. I believe they changed. But it was actually a crazy time. Lot of good content was there.

Mike Pfeiffer:
There still is. There’s always something, it seems every day coming out from different vendors. But you know, you started with Azure. I know that you’ve worked on multiple platforms. I know you’ve done a lot of stuff with Google Cloud platform. Was learning Azure first your introduction to just cloud and you’re able to see patterns in things like Google Cloud platform, AWS that were similar to Azure, did that help you?

Chirag Nayyar:
Yes. Actually, as I would like to share, I started putting the focus more to strengthen my basics around the compute, network, storage. Back in 2014 and 15, when even I believe in 2014 compute engine from the Google site, it wasn’t Pita. So I was started correlating the things, but yes, what I found at that time, it was not that much mature, all the nitty gritty and nuts and bolts were not there. But gradually I found that all the platforms from the basic perspective are coming to the same stage. So when I started my job, I was part of a AWS consulting team. I start from the learning perspective. I started with Azure and GCP, but when the point came for the professional career, I was in AWS and I almost done day in, day out for almost three years, work on AWS platform.

Chirag Nayyar:
So really that previous learning helped me to understand about the AWS. When I now restarted, relearn the Azure, as well as GCP, I found that all the basic parts are clear and all the platforms are getting much, much mature. Now, when I say back in 2018 and 19 things are at certain level are same, maybe bit of terminology and way to implement is different. But conceptually, I try to make my mind map that, yes, whatever I have done in two or three years in AWS, how I can replicate here, maybe a few services is not available, but there is some kind of a workaround to achieve that task and achieve that work on other platforms. But if you say now present, I believe from the infra perspective, most of these major platform is giving the coverage end-to-end whatever enterprise or any kind customer is looking for.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Yes. It’s one of the hidden benefits to getting good with one platform, you just end up learning so many patterns that make sense in others. One of the things you said that I’ve been ranting about since the beginning of this show, way back in the early 2019 was focusing on core services like compute, networking, storage, security. So that’s awesome that that strategy helped you.

Mike Pfeiffer:
What is it you’re working on today? I know you’re working for a partner and stuff, but let’s talk about your community work. I know you’re doing a ton of stuff, helping people ramp up. Maybe we could get into that a little bit. What are you working on in the community?

Chirag Nayyar:
Sure, sure. So I can say that community plays a major role in my career. Again, as a newbie, I got introduced to the Google community. That is a Google developer group, I was in Mumbai. So there is a community, annual festival happen. I got to introduce. As a new guy, it was a bit hesitant for me to come up and speak. But luckily I delivered my talk around again, the compute engine at that time, but that helped me to build my confidence to talk more and more.

Chirag Nayyar:
So I tried to involve in multiple communities wherever I see or wherever I live, I have placed in multiple places back in India and now outside India. So wherever I go, I try to attend the community meetup, there’s a AWS communities, everywhere, having a presence. Google communities are having everywhere presence as well as the Azure communities are presence.

Chirag Nayyar:
Meanwhile, I started my own community for the Kubernetes and CNCF chapter because I would like to share about. I would like to learn myself as well as, I would like to share and hear from the other people. Because the idea I found from the community is, ask for a help is not a bad thing. If we don’t know if a person don’t know, so ask for help is a good thing. It really helped me to connect with many, many people. To build a network, to understand from a different, different background, people who are coming with a different experience. So communities plays a major role.

Chirag Nayyar:
Right now I am involved Alibaba community here in Singapore, as well as I recently got Alibaba MVP award. So I’m trying to share whatever the learning I’m doing and try to learn from the others as well as I encourage everyone, because it will give from the personal development also that how you can present in front of many people from a different, different level of experience people. Which in return in the professional way, I found that it is helping me to present to the different level of people. When we are going to present about a cloud, especially from the CX level, the mindset is different because they would like to talk more on the business perspective then the any IT people they would like to talk more on the technical front, but security things is a very common question.

Chirag Nayyar:
So I love, that is why part of communities and due to the pandemic, I thought to start rather than dropping how I can engage. So in that regard, I started my own YouTube channel. I tried to talk doing some live stream, deliver some as your related content, as well as other cloud-related content. I got a ton of feedback, which is helping me to improve my own pitch, the way I can deliver. Even I can learn what are the areas where I also need the improvement. So it’s always a helpful, sometime we will get some kind of a critic which may a person not like, but sometime a feedback, which is really very genuine. It’s now up to a person that how to adapt and implement and improve. So communities, I really thankful that I got introduced to the communities in my early days of career.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Yes. That would be a key strategic move that I would recommend to anybody, especially in your early part of your career, but just any part of your career. I know it was a huge thing for me. I’ve talked about it a lot on this show, just getting into user groups a little over 10 years ago, it was a big game changer for me. A lot of stuff that you mentioned in that last conversation was really good because if you’re listening to this, one of the key things that I picked up on, you said just to underline, is being able to communicate with people in different areas of the IT business. I think a lot of us get stuck focusing on technical things, and it’s easy to forget how to open a conversation with somebody and also maybe be able to hold a conversation with someone that’s a C-level executive versus somebody who’s a practitioner. So I love that.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Then the other thing you said was just getting out there and doing more speaking and being okay with taking the feedback. I think that one of the places where people struggle, I think people know for the most part, analytically, all these things work. In professional networking, getting out there speaking. I think the big hangup for most of us is, it’s kind of intimidating, right? It’s like people are worried about looking bad, stuff like that. How do you deal with that? Is that just because you’re just starting your career, so it’s okay for you to just in that mindset of try new stuff and going from there, or do you have to have like a certain mindset to keep yourself focused as you go and do YouTube and you go and you do all these user group presentations and stuff like that?

Chirag Nayyar:
It was really, really a good thing. So it’s not like that every… No one is born a speaker or something. It is gradually the skill got developed. The same kind of thing happened with me. As I mentioned, I started the career in 2016 for the one year, I was attending the meetup, but I was not having that confidence to be on stage, to talk, even talk about the basics of EC2 or the VPC related thing. After having even a one year of experience, not confident, but yes, I can say it’s little bit of a push from the leadership came into picture. They said, hey, you can do it, let’s try it once. Because that is the part of also a job role being as a business development guy, you need to talk with a customer on a different, different stage.

Chirag Nayyar:
So even my first talk, I was shivering like when I see around, I believe two to 250 people in front of me and I need to present about the compute options on GCP. I was literally shivering. The mic was not properly holding my hand, but here it was a five, 10 minutes. Then I need to make eye contact, that yes I can present because I know the content and this is my presentation and I need to present a demo. But after that, I really need to work on to first, build my mindset that yes, if you’re going to present, you need to take a proper ownership and responsibility so that you can give them right message. I agree on that part also, it happened with me that somehow some kind of mistake happened or tongue slip happen, not with the right information, but we can apologize and improve that.

Chirag Nayyar:
So it’s a continuous practice. Almost I can say the whole 2019 was, every weekend, there is a user group meetup and I was taking a part. Somehow some people call me as just as guest speaker. Someday I just be as a anchor. So it is giving me the opportunity to improve on a daily, daily basis. Then as professionally, I got the same opportunity that I need to present. It was helpful last year, almost a year back, that my manager called me and said that you need to present a three hour AWS session in AWS, Singapore. So I was shocked like, hey, how I can do this. But they gave me around two weeks of time and I was preparing that content. I was started practicing and I’m lucky enough that it went well and the audience, I try, I clarified all the answers.

Chirag Nayyar:
So it gave me the another level of then confidence. That before, what I can say that community part, when you need to do a very formal way, you need to change the pitch. You need to change maybe the wordings also. But yes. So from that point, I can say it is a big turn I’m in my career. I started more and more.

Chirag Nayyar:
Now whenever I go, I made my mindset. Before yes, practice is required. It is not that our confidence will always help, practice is always required. You need to know what you are going to present. Maybe what slides, what talk. That is where the notes will help. So I try to prepare from that perspective and maybe wherever I need to have maybe a little bit of, I can say joke part so that other people will not feel bored on that or some kind of a tough concept, how I can make it into the easy, maybe by doing some kind of a storytelling, rather than only the presentation part. I try to take a help from the storytelling as well as from the experience without sharing any kind of customer name, but the scenarios which happened with me, maybe tweak it in a way so that I can present and the other people will be able to understand.

Chirag Nayyar:
So that is how almost at this two and a half year happened with me. There is always a room of improvements on a daily basis. It is the part of my job from a personal as well as a professional way.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Well, it definitely is. It’s really intimidating. It takes a lot of courage to get out there and speak when you haven’t done it before. So that’s awesome. I think there’s a few gems in there that you shared and for people listening, just to recap. A basic concept of what you said was, just keep on coming at it. You said every weekend for the first part, you were going out there and doing all those talks. I can relate to that. When I got into doing more presentations and stuff, the reps are huge. So I couldn’t agree more there. It’s kind of funny too. I remember you were talking about how you were shaking during your first presentation. I can remember back to my first user group presentation, the guy introduced me and I got one sentence out and I’ve completely froze and forgot what I was going to say next. It’s hard man.

Chirag Nayyar:
Same thing happened, like just giving a introduction after that, forgot. Yes, the same thing happened.

Mike Pfeiffer:
But it’s awesome because when you continue to just do it, you end up getting out of your own head and then you can focus on adding value to the people that are in the audience. That was the biggest thing. I think for me, where I got over, maybe the fear of… I think there’s two things, actually, number one is being super focused on the audience. What are they going to get from this? Then number two, the other big thing and I think you touched on this as well, but you being prepared. Most of the time, every time that in the later part of my career, if I’m going to a conference or something to speak, the only time I really get nervous is if there’s a rush or if I maybe didn’t get a chance to prepare my demos or things like that. Anytime I’m even remotely under-prepared I started getting more anxiety. So if you’re super prepared, you’ve done your homework, you’ve done your demos. You’re okay with maybe teach your way through a couple of demo fails.

Mike Pfeiffer:
I think everybody in this business should have the ambition to do things like this, get out and share more because if you don’t do it, you’re not going to get all the value out of it. It’s just transformational. So I think it’s really cool. Also, I had no idea that you’re an Alibaba MVP. So congratulations on that.

Chirag Nayyar:
Thank you, thank you.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Cool platform. Because I think a lot of people don’t even realize… Well, I’ve talked to people and had conversations where like, what’s Alibaba? So if you haven’t heard of Alibaba, it’s basically Amazon in China. Then they have a cloud platform just like Amazon does and it’s insanely awesome. What are your thoughts, talk about it a little bit?

Chirag Nayyar:
[crosstalk 00:19:34] big market in this IT [inaudible 00:19:35] market, apart from the mainland China. I also got interacted again through the user group. So in December 2019, I attended one of their user group here in Singapore and their group VP game. There is something known as Double 11, which is 11th number every year, a week of sales happen. That is one of its biggest sale globally. It is maybe you can say three to five X bigger than the black Friday or Cyber Monday. They reveal about some stats and it is mind-blowing and they talk about how they are able to scale, what was their preparation planning. Every year, it is getting bigger and bigger. So from that point, I thought to explore, and again, the basics are same. So I try to replicate from whatever my previous learning to learn this platform. But terminology is different. Bit of user experience is different, but more or less things are on the base level from the infra, from the migration, from adopting the storage perspective is same.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Nice man. That’s really cool. So what do you think about Alibaba? In terms of day-to-day administration working in that platform, do you feel like it’s pretty similar for the most part than Azure, GCP, things like that?

Chirag Nayyar:
In a single sentence, if you would like to say, I believe it is a mixture of all three. There are a few things, it is a AWS way. There are few things as Azure way. There are a few things which is the GCP way. So I believe they have put the whole ideology on their platform. So in few services you will see that it is something what we have done in GCP.

Chirag Nayyar:
Simple example I can say, the Cloud SQL. So in GCP, Cloud SQLs, so if you’d want to use something RDS, MySQL and Alibaba, you will find the GCP experience, that field which GCP is giving you. So the same, if you talking about the EC2 where it is known as ECS, it’s a purely EC2 kind of a service. So if you know how to spin up a EC2, what kind of, where you need to put the user data, where to download the key, how to do SSH and all those things. As well as they have their own system manager kind of service. So it will be the same kind of experience.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Okay. Pretty cool. Also, I know you got a ton of certifications, right? So for the folks listening, what are some of your best certification tips because you’ve done tons, right? Amazon and Microsoft and Google and stuff like that?

Chirag Nayyar:
Yes, yes. If I count recently, almost 24, if I say. But majorly because I’m focused on the infra and migration. So the tip is, focus on first off the conceptual part as well as then… One thing I will say that imagination is bigger than knowledge because even if while doing the exam right now, we are following about the remote proctoring. But most of the professional level exam, I prefer, I highly recommend to go to a center because there you will get a pen and paper, you can design something and put your logic there.

Chirag Nayyar:
Don’t rush to take the exam. I also did that mistake back in 2017, that when I started career, I thought that AWS Pro is easy. I know all the major things so I can appear, but I was not able to crack that exam. So it took me almost two more years to prepare for AWS Pro level thing. This time I have done comfortably, I appeared this year in January only, about the AWS Pro solution architect exam. I have done very, very comfortably. I can say I found that exam is a bit lengthy, but easy. That is known as one of the toughest exams.

Chirag Nayyar:
So any exam, be it a pro, be it associate, you need to have a good knowledge and understanding first of the base. Then you need to do some kind of a practice to build, follow the rule of cloud, build fast, fail fast, rather than thinking that you need to complete the course today or within the next three days, you need to sit for exam to pass the exam. I found that will not give a value of certification. Even, I believe Mike, you have done a one session with Josh [Stephanie 00:00:23:59]. It is a very deep dive discussion and really, really very well point covered.

Chirag Nayyar:
So few points I’m taking from that also, that certification will only give you a value if you know how to leverage and if you know how you are going to implement the solution, because certifications are not getting updated on a regular basis. It’s I believe a timeline of 18 to 24 months. But we know that within a two year, any cloud platform, their services are getting enhanced feature rates, how you are going to design the solution? That matters a lot.

Chirag Nayyar:
So while preparing for certification, know the basics. First know what content is going to cover. According to that, prepare your own timeline. It may take one month. It may take a six months, it’s okay. Because certification is not a end. But once you will comfortable, then I believe certification will be much, much easy and then you can present that yes, you have done.

Chirag Nayyar:
After that journey is not stopping. You need to go for some kind of a next level, wherever your area of interest is. Another thing is, don’t think that certification will give instant value also, especially for the freshers, I would like to highlight that because I see on the social media, a lot of things going, people are doing multiple certification, but not having the understanding of the implementation part. It can be from the business skill, as well as the technical skill. Following a tutorial is one thing, but troubleshooting from your own side, that is the most bigger part.

Chirag Nayyar:
Just giving my own personal story that I started purchasing a domain in my college days. Since that I am trying to set up a blog and trying to set up a blog in a multiple way from the single instance, to the multi-tier thing, to the container, to the server-less thing. Knowing how the domain name worked, know about how the internal domain name work, how you can leverage the route 53 internal private zone, as well as the public zone from the AWS perspective. Most of the other cloud platform also having such services. So know, create end-to-end solution. Logging and monitoring is also that much important. Not only the infra part, if you are going for the operations route, you need to really know what actually to log and what actually to monitor and when to take action.

Chirag Nayyar:
So certification is just a way to push yourself to learn with some desired timeline. So put a timeline first, that is the most important part. If you say that it’s a open-ended thing, I can say you can study for a year, you will feel not comfortable to sit for exam. This kind of scenarios happen. It happened with me also. So my strategy nowadays, the area I always right now playing in the area in which I feel comfortable. So I put a date maybe a month, 45 days. Then I try to figure out what resource.

Chirag Nayyar:
One prepare is don’t follow multiple resources, follow one resource. You need to find out what will best work for you. It may happen your organization is having a tight fit kind of a platform, or you need to do your own bit of R&D. That what resource you want, what is your most [inaudible 00:27:21]? What is the other area where you need to put more focus and more time and effort to make it as a strength?

Chirag Nayyar:
These are the few I can say ideas about doing any kind of certification. Once you will complete the certification, trust me, you will feel damn good. I am from the both side as well as, I believe Mike you also, that when you fail in the exam, it is really bad. I believe for a few days, it is every day it is kind of a, hey, I failed. But when you pass the exam and you literally know that you have done, put effort, it will give the awesome feeling. You will become more confident to talk about that thing because yes, that is where you need to leverage the value of certification. You will talk more that, yes, I know, let me share, this is what I learned and what new feature came, how we can explore. The whole idea is there.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Oh yes, totally. Couldn’t agree more. A lot of good tips in there, especially about being patient. I think a lot of people are trying to rush through that cloud. It’s not going anywhere. This thing is here to stay, right? Especially in the near term it’s going to be here, in the longterm it’s going to be here.

Mike Pfeiffer:
I see that too. A lot of people rushing, worrying about, oh, if I’m getting certified right away? Then also, am I going to get the results right away from that? So I would want to amplify that message as well, take your time and then let it play out. Don’t rush it. Let it happen naturally.

Mike Pfeiffer:
But a question for you, because it’s got to be hard for somebody to come out of college and go straight into all this stuff. What from your perspective… And this also might help somebody that’s maybe coming out of school right now, or maybe even somebody that’s switching from another area of IT coming into cloud. For you, what was the biggest sticking point, the hardest stuff to wrap your brain around as somebody that was just strictly only studying computer science?

Chirag Nayyar:
Coming from the computer science background. Yes, knowing the basics of computer science. Which covered the algorithm as well as the programming part. But nowadays as internet is not a luxury, it is a necessity, we can leverage to know about where the next things are going as I believe every student is now techy. So knowing about where the industry going, cloud is playing a role. So think cloud as a add-on. Whether you are doing a computer science or any degree. Any kind of course, take cloud as a add-on.

Chirag Nayyar:
Don’t think it’s any separate field or any separate branch of computer science. It is something that is enhancing the same computer science concepts in a much improvised and newer way and the faster way. Network is a network, I believe in every academics we covered the network. So if we started the IT before, it is the same maybe which happened back in two to three decades ago or whenever it was invented. But now in a much more enhanced way, cloud is giving the opportunity to do a practical. Simple here I would like to always say, share, that most of the time, we will not able to do the practical in our academics, we are not able to clarify what is the difference between the layer seven and layer four. Here the value of cloud, anyone can start freely. All those three-tier such kind of things are available. You can spin up, follow some tutorial. You can spin up some kind of a load balancer and maybe try to inspect packet to understand that what is the difference of how the packets are moved from layer seven and how it will look at layer four.

Chirag Nayyar:
So that from a computer science perspective, you can take it as a add- on if you really decided you want to be into the development. Again, take cloud as from a development perspective, all those major programming language SDKs are available. If you totally interested in programming, you will surely be comfortable to understand that how you need to build a multi-tier. Again, start small, maybe a very small, your own personal blog or a website or something that kind of a project. As a hobbyist, you can build and it will clarify lot of concept from your academics perspective, as well as your basics of cloud clarity.

Chirag Nayyar:
If I’d say about, like if someone wants to switch the career, don’t think that you need to start it from scratch. You need to leverage your existing experience, whether you are coming from a sales perspective, from a marketing perspective or from a different domain, because every organization nowadays become a IT shop. Whether it’s finance, whether it’s any kind of insurance, any aviation or hospitality, IT is there and cloud is present there. All the big organization, all the small-scale organization. Be it any segment, SMB, SMC, everyone is exploring cloud somehow in a multiple way. You need to know, organization is leveraging the cloud, what’s their vision and where you can fit by leveraging your existing experience.

Chirag Nayyar:
If you are a IT network guy, yes, you can move to the cloud. You need to apply the same fundamental. Only thing, you will not get to play with the physical hardware, but everything is software defined. All those network, virtual appliances, you can spin up whatever you can manage on premises.

Chirag Nayyar:
For the sales and marketing people. You need to use the sales and marketing again, all about the relationship building. But to add, that is where the practitioner level thing I found that is the right target audience. The people who are having experience in non-IT background, where all these cloud providers are providing the fundamental. Like Azure is covering all the fundamental level of certification track. As well as AWS is covering, that is not to just showcase the certification but I believe that is a turning point for any experienced person to move into the cloud, by understanding the basics. Then by validating their skill by doing the practitioner exam. So that it will the confidence, you know at least the basics from the business perspective, what to talk and what to present in front of a customer.

Mike Pfeiffer:
It’s good stuff. So as we’re wrapping this episode up, where can we send people? I know you said you have a YouTube channel, you’re running some communities, it sounds like. Where should we send people after this episode?

Chirag Nayyar:
So yes, I am very much active on LinkedIn as well as Twitter. And yes, I have a plan to create couple of tutorials on my YouTube channel. So the first place I always recommend to connect with me on LinkedIn. That will be a much, much faster way. If someone wants to drop me a mail, so that also can. I have my own email address, chiragnayyar.com. Feel free, anyone can drop me a mail about with their query. I will try my best to get back to them as soon as possible.

Mike Pfeiffer:
Perfect. We’ll add all that stuff to the show notes for anybody listening. Chirag, it was great catching up, man. Thanks so much for being on the show.

Chirag Nayyar:
Thank you. Thank you, Mike, for this opportunity. Thank you. See you soon.

Mike Pfeiffer:
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Mike Pfeiffer:
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